Episode 24- Auburn's Revaluation with Karen Scammon and Joe St. Peter

Joining Jenn Boenig are guest cohost Emma Burns in the city's Finance Department as well as Karen Scammon, Auburn's Assessor and Joe St. Peter, Auburn's Deputy Assessor.

Karen and Joe explain why Auburn will start a revaluation of all city properties and how that process works. They also address some frequently asked questions about the process and share information about some of the state's tax relief programs.

Learn more about the assessing department by visiting the city's website. 

Transcript

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it's absolutely Auburn a place where we'll talk about all things Auburn mean because we are in the middle of it all

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the city of Auburn's Communications team is dedicated to helping you connect with city government and learn everything you

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need to know about Auburn our city our people our events and our community

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welcome to absolutely Auburn on this episode of absolutely Auburn we have

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another guest co-host Emma burns from the finance department joining us we are also welcoming Karen scammon and Joe St

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Peter from Auburn's assessing Department in so that they can explain a little more about the revaluation

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process welcome back to absolutely Auburn I'm your host Jen bonig and

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today's guest co-host is Emma Burns welcome Emma thank you Emma is an

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accounting assistant in our finance department that's still right right that's correct okay I know we've had

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some changes so I'm just making sure I'm still calling the right okay and Emma's

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also my goci finance person typically also joining us in the studio

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today are Karen scamman Auburn's assessor and Joe St Peter Auburn's

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deputy assessor welcome Karen and Joe thank you so Karen can you explain a

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little more about what an assessor is and share a little more about what your typical workday looks like certainly um

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so a lot of people aren't aware that a tax assessor is an agent of the state

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and we assess property and evaluate property for the purpose of

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Taxation um we have to follow all of the main Revenue um rules and regulations

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for assessors and adhere to the main Constitution with everything we do our

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main purpose again is to assess for the purpose of Taxation but we also must make sure that

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we are treating all taxpayers fairly and each taxpayer is paying their fair share

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of taxes that in a nutshell is what all assessors adhere to a typical work day

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um typical and workday don't go well together in the assessing world we have a schedule our assessing

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schedule starts the day after tax commitment and we have a yearly schedule

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that we follow until the following tax commitment and we have things that we must do and deadlines that we must meet

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according to those uh Revenue standards and the Constitution so it's more of a

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month-by-month calendar and based on the uh time of year it is those are the

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tasks that we have to do and I think Joe's probably going to go more into the month by month and and what we do so why

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don't you explain that like Karen said uh our typical workday really depends on the priority

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of the moment um we have special projects that come up um sometimes there are legislative issues that we have to

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respond to that we didn't expect so a lot of it's dealing with the unexpected

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right now we're dealing with public Outreach we're talking to taxpayers about their taxes their assessment uh

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and we're doing property inspections and response and that's really taking up a lot of our time and maybe doing things

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that we we didn't plan on doing because we we we normally like to do uh this time of year what are called one and

3:39

four inspections where we go around and we assess properties in the city but other things have kind of taken us from

3:44

that and that's really we're playing catchup a lot you know doing the things that we need to do fundamentally though

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you know in a in a broad sense we assess all real estate in the city and we assess business personal property in the

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city all told that's two .6 billion in the valuation base which should be

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changing uh I think we're going to talk about that uh coming forward another big thing that people may not realize that

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we do is that we manage exemptions and exempt property is 20% of our total

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value we have over 5,300 total exemptions that are on

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property um that that we have to uh to to manage and get correct and we have to assess exemptions too I think one one

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misperception about exemptions are well if it's exempt you don't have to assess it we do actually CU we have to account

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for it and we have to we have to tabulate it and report it to the state so it's really important that we do that

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and within those broad categories you know we do a lot of other things we have to update ownership we have to uh

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maintain our tax maps and make edits to those we Grant abatement to you know

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when we don't get it right and sometimes we don't uh we have to engage with taxpayers we assist other departments CU

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they often have a lot of questions about the property record uh that we have to keep straight like Ken said we're

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accountable to the state we have to deliver reports to them um we do something called sales ratio studies one

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big one that we do for the for the state of Maine but we also kind of determine if our assessments correct and do all

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kinds of um independent smaller ratio studies throughout the year we administer special programs for the

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state like the tree growth program and uh the open space and and in similar programs we have to be certified so we

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have to go to training we have to maintain our our certifications and and maintain affiliations with assessor

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groups uh and we have to uh respond to shifting priorities and and really that's a lot Karen property taxes can be

5:39

a bit of a Hot Topic which is super understandable can you explain how property values are determined certainly

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so the best way to determine the valuation of a property is to have the

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opportunity to do an interior and exterior full inspection uh what we are

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looking for when we go into into a property is what's the quality of

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construction what's the uh quality and condition of the materials in the house

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how old is the house how large is the house um what's the living area versus

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maybe the basement area or um the full exterior the decks the

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garages all of that comes into play um when we are valuing a

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property an improved property obviously we also do land as well um but we'll

6:33

talk improved property we have a computer assisted Mass appraisal uh

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system and that system is based on cost cost of

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materials and also uh we put in quality and all of the things that we have

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determined of the improvements and that computer assisted Mass appraisal we have

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set up uh with tables based on sales in the market um land values are based on

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sales in the market and if we put in the correct accurate information which again is best received

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through an inspection it will tell us the value of the property which we then

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test against the market and test against other properties to make sure again we

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go back to the equity we need to make sure it's Equitable with other properties that are similar um so that's

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the way we assess a property um it's all based on the market based on sales and

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based on the information that we've received through those inspections now

7:43

we are about to undergo a revaluation can you

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explain in simple or as simple as terms cuz I know it's a complex topic right um

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as I like to say G math what is

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reevaluation why do we need to do it why now you know is it something that

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should be done every so often I guess can you explain a little more about that I'll start and then I'll let

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Joe because I know that he'll think of a lot of things that I have forgotten we are

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mandated by the Constitution to assess at just value just value means market

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value we have seen the market escalate extremely high sales in the past 3 or

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four years we all know that our assessed values are not at market value we also

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are realizing through the ratio studies that Joe um has mentioned before and

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other studies that we have done that we are not meeting the standards set for assessors by the Constitution tion um

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when that happens it's time to do a revaluation of all the properties in the

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city and when I say all the properties I mean residential vacant land industrial

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commercial everything in the city gets reassessed um because although we have

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been making Market adjustments based on the sales in the market um it gets to a point where

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the uh Equity is not there anymore and that's another indicator it's time to do

9:37

a complete revaluation want to expand on that well I I think that actually covers it I mean

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on its face a reval is actually quite simple we we are intending to assess all

9:50

property according to its market value when we do that right we have a equal

9:55

tax bur people aren't paying more than their fair share nor are they paying less and when you do that um it it

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moderates that tax base it moderates the tax amounts that people are going to pay

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and uh there there are some potential benefits and it's more fine-tuned than just making Market adjustments like we

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have been doing because that's kind of a growth across the board adjustment to certain classes of properties when you

10:21

do the revalue you dig in a little bit deeper and you look at the particular neighborhoods you look at whether or not

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the cost tables are correct for you know the contributory value of a garage for example or uh the amount of Paving in a

10:34

commercial property so all of those things are really looked at and we're starting over kind of with a fresh slate

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based on current market conditions so because it's going to take several years

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to complete is that why the city chose to work with a professional firm yeah that's one reason um you know one of the

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objectives in a full listed measure which this this is going to be is to inspect every property and that alone is

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is very timeconsuming uh and because we have a very diverse tax base mix we have a lot of different

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types of properties in Auburn we have residential commercial utility properties agricultural we have

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Lakefront I mean Auburn has just about everything um but it's good to have an independent kind of analysis of that and

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to have someone who may have some specialized experience in say a commercial property some properties are

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very difficult to Value uh like a dam for instance or a large industrial property so having that you know that

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that added layer of knowledge and expertise is very helpful so when this process starts uh

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people will be coming around you're going to see them out and about throughout the city visiting various

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properties trying to determine um yeah looking kind of at that checklist of things that they need to look at to help

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you guys plug in the information to then determine the value so if someone knocks

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on my door or first of all how do I know they're legit how do I know that they're working for the city of Auburn and then

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do I have to let them in my house if I don't good question you know if I don't let them

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in what does that mean I guess what does it mean anything certainly um first of

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all the inspectors um the company that we ultimately will hire um which we have

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no contract signed right at the moment but we are working on one um and in the

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contract it does say that cars that they will be driving will be clearly

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identified um they will have on vests that will say assessor they will have

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badges City badges so their picture will be on it their name will be on it they will be registered with the police

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department um so that people could call the police department and say hey there's a car in my driveway and I'm

12:57

just checking to make sure they're legit we will we hope that we will have time

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to have either public meeting or we will definitely have the website with

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pictures on it of all the listers that will be out in the field knocking on uh

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taxpayers doors do they have to let them in absolutely not they do not they have

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the right to refuse to let them in um at the very least what will happen is the

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inspector will stay Outdoors will note the property from the outdoors you know

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um make assumptions obviously uh based on what they're seeing on the

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exterior we will determine value that way if people if a taxpayer did not let

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them in and the letter goes out because there will be letters sent to all the

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taxpayers with their new valuation if they don't agree with that valuation at

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that time they can schedule an appointment um and have someone come in and inspect

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the property if they still choose not to have someone

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inspect then we are going to probably have them fill out a

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questionnaire about their property and based on what they are telling us for information again you know how many

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rooms do you have in the house how many bathrooms do you have in the house is your basement finished things like that

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will be on the questionnaire based on that and that is exterior inspection and

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what we already have in the property record that will all be taken into consideration and a value will be set on

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the property even after that when we go to tax commitment and we commit the taxes

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if they are still not agreeing with what has been put on their property for

14:51

evaluation they always have the right to file for an abatement and at that point

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we would again ask them if we can go in their home but there are several avenues for the taxpayer to have the chance to

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discuss their property valuation um and to contest their property

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valuation and now I know you mentioned before uh quality so I'm assuming if

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someone were to come in if I let someone into my home are they looking at the

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quality of the materials I have for example you know I have stone countertops in my kitchen or I don't

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know the I have wood floors on the floor like I guess what are what are those things that they're kind of looking at

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yeah exactly those those sorts of things a lot of times though when a house is constructed that's when we establish the

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quality of it uh the materials involved and we we don't look at you know if you have if you added a stone countertop

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that doesn't automatically change your condition or your quality okay it doesn't uh you know we look at it in the

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aggregate we look at the the whole house you know you may have a house that has absolutely beautiful

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exterior but there's a lot of condition issues a lot of problems on the inside

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so that's why that's what one that's one of the reasons why we like to inspect property because uh the the outside

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doesn't always give the the true pict yes absolutely so but you're right it's it's the it's what makes up the house

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that determines the quality how well it's constructed and and it can be complex

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you know the the you can have someone who has an absolutely beautiful uh inter

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interior cabinets and and countertops but it wasn't built very it wasn't a high quality building when it was built

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okay so you know all those things play into it and again that's why we like to inspect uh the properties um during a

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reval all right so that makes sense so it sounds like you know don't panic if you've made some improvements it's not

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necessarily going to and and quality rarely changes um it's the condition that typically will change all right

16:55

that that makes that makes sense to me now yeah now Joe how long will the revaluation take so our our Target is to

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complete it by uh 2027 obviously we need to get someone started and in order to meet that objective um but certainly it

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won't be done before then okay now if it's not going to take until then how long will it be until those new values

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reflect in our tax bills yeah so I I would think um as far as the reval goes it might not

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be until August 2027 okay and depending on what the informal public processes it

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could actually be later than that so a lot of there are a lot of question marks before we actually cross that Finish

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Line uh our hope would be by August 2027 but we don't know our goal is to do it

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right not do it fast we want to make sure that that when you know we can

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cover our bases that we can defend the assessments so that we know that it's being done um a lot of things can happen

17:52

between now and 2027 the market May settle there there may be other changes that we have to consider

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so uh you know we have a we have a goal but we also know that things change so

18:05

say we were halfway through this process and the market then settles do you start from square one or do you just kind of

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continue great question yes and no I mean obviously the buildings are what they are you know so when we're doing

18:20

our inventory that should be clear hopefully that we've done our inspections and

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we'll be in a better position to say okay if the market does drop we can apply those new values you

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know based on the inventory that we have so no matter what and and sometimes you do revals because the value is low it's

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it's not it's not necessarily you do it because of an inflated Market you do a reval when you when things change you

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know neighborhoods change buildings change you know so it's not we're not

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just harvesting value and and and I think maybe that's a misperception out there we're trying to get it right now

18:55

how often do revals happen well going back to standards and statutes revals

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revals could happen every year uh there are some municipalities in the state of Maine that revalue properties every

19:07

single year um in Auburn we have not because we've met the standards coming

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up until this Market escalated like it did um we I know I have never seen a

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market happen and escalate sale prices the way they have ever yeah um so in

19:28

answer to your question question you do it when you're not meeting the standards anymore and the values need to be

19:35

reestablished and to put things in perspective we were declaring at 100% for you know well over a decade almost

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20 years which means that the values themselves were reflective of the sale prices uh in the market yep you know in

19:49

2019 things started to change dramatically and prices escalated year

19:54

upon year upon year and we're still haven't really seen a plateau you know we're we're still seeing

19:59

escalate and no one would have expected that and no one no one I mean it defies all logic if you had told us before the

20:06

pandemic that values would increase I mean we we expected the opposite we we expected most people did um so we are in

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some unprecedented territory and it's not just Auburn across the state communities are grappling with how do

20:21

you respond because if you don't respond your ratios drop and you're not in

20:27

compliance and that that forfeit some some State uh reimbursement and it

20:32

creates some other issues which are too complex to talk about yes now I think another probably

20:41

Mi Mis uh perception is a reval means my taxes are going to go up that's just

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automatically what's going to happen you just want to raise my taxes and you're going to raise the value of my property

20:55

yep thanks for asking um so I I'm just going to throw this in and then I'm I'm

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sure that we'll have more comment um you can only raise the amount of taxes to

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cover the budget you can't raise taxes and have this huge surplus of taxes

21:14

sitting around to spend on other things so yes the values will increase

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substantially and does that mean the taxes will go up no they could for some

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people they could go down for some people it could be depend on the class of property commercial

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residential the mill rate historically drops significantly during a revaluation

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because it's a numbers game if your values go up your mill rate comes down because again you cannot raise more

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money than is going to cover that budget so it a lot of things are dependent on

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in the next three years what's going to happen to this budget uh we don't know where that's going to end up

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we don't know where the values are going to end up right now but I can

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99.9% guarantee that we will see a substantial drop in that mill rate

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because historically going back we have all of the mill rates and we have the years that the revaluations took place

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over the city of Auburn and if you look at them that's historically what will

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happen yeah and and again um no taxes don't always go up um and and and and

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often you know people like to quote statistics about you know a third a third go up a third go down a third stay

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the same I don't know that that's going to be the case here it's hard to predict we have been making these adjustments

22:42

all along so that should moderate some of some of these things and in assuming a reasonably flat budget you know taxes

22:49

should go down for some and there's a variety of reasons for that one it maybe we determined the condition or the

22:54

quality was lower than what we have in the record but it's really about equalizing that tax burden amongst

23:01

different property types that's really where you're going to see the shift um our Focus has been on the single family

23:08

the multif family and land in with our Market adjustments but this is more of a

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fine-tuned process where we're looking at everything we're looking at the commercial we're looking at the industrial we're looking at the

23:19

utilities and those are the harder ones to determine because we don't have a lot of sales or Market data for those but

23:26

there is data and there are ways to Value those so if we're undervaluing them then it shifts that tax burden back

23:32

to those commercial properties again we don't know what the end result is going to be because a lot a lot is going to

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happen between now and then so it's about doing that analysis and doing it

23:44

right and hopefully there there's benefits to everybody M all right so

23:49

Karen let's say that you know the team came in I let them in my house they looked all around the outside the

23:56

interior everything and I disagree with the assessment is there something that I can do about that or is it just kind of

24:01

set in stone oh no it's definitely not set in stone the taxpayer will have the

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opportunity once those letters go out that we talked about to give us a call

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and go over the valuation let us know um what you disagree with specifically and then we

24:21

will definitely take another look at it make sure it's correct at that point um

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it's reduced or we agree with what you're U have presented to us then we will reduce the

24:33

valuation and if not if we keep it the same um you always have that opportunity

24:39

for an abatement obviously there are people who struggle to pay their property taxes for a

24:46

variety of reasons are there any tax relief programs that are available to

24:51

help folks you know try to level that out yeah so most people are probably

24:57

familiar with the home homestead exemption um we have 4,300 plus people

25:02

that that are currently receiving that I'm sometimes surprised that there are still people who don't get the homestead

25:08

exemption but there are so that's one program that people can sign up for they have to apply by April 1st of Any Given

25:14

year and live in their home for a year in order to qualify but that's one that that's available um and that's the only

25:21

you just have to is that the only no is that the only like you just have to live there for the year you have to as of

25:26

April 1 as of April the application in by April 1 so there there could be there

25:32

are some scenarios where it may be a little bit longer than a year depending on when when you sign up and and how that works so okay and that's at full

25:39

value that's $25,000 off the assessed value um we would love to see that higher so talk to your legislators

25:46

people um but but you know we do need some reform and we in this this cycle

25:51

we've been hearing from a lot of people that it's not enough and I agree it's not enough um but the homestead is one

25:58

um if you are a veteran you may be eligible for an exemption um we have about four 500 veterans who are

26:05

currently getting that exemption and there may be more out there so if you're listening uh and you're you're a veteran

26:11

you may qualify for the veterans exemption that's also not a lot it's $6,000 at full value uh off your

26:17

assessment again talk to your legislature because those are those are programs that uh should be should be

26:24

available there's no specific senior exemption uh for people there was a

26:30

stabilization program for a year ago but they the legislature they had some problems they

26:35

had to work out so that uh was repealed um we hear that a lot but for seniors I

26:42

really encourage them to look at the property tax deferral program um it's

26:47

not for everybody but I've definitely talked to some people in recent weeks who this would have been perfect for

26:53

it's basically a loan from the state of Maine they'll pay your taxes as long as you live in the home

26:58

and continue to be eligible uh and and you're you're no longer eligible if you

27:04

die obviously or you sell the home and in both of those cases that loan has to

27:09

be paid back either by the state or by you once you sell the property uh and there is there's there's an interest

27:15

involved so for those who are at most risk of losing their home this is a very good program and and I I I want to you

27:22

know people are afraid they don't want to encumber their home they don't want their heirs to have to um uh

27:28

take that burden on but if if it's between you know being on the street or

27:33

staying in your home I think uh the deferral program is is a good one for uh for for people to take access up and now

27:41

people can contact you guys do they need to contact the state for these programs if if I hear something and I I think I

27:48

might qualify who do I reach out to come to the assessor's office um we have all

27:53

the applications we process at the local level the homestead exemption the

27:59

veterans exemption the blind exemption um we take the application and all of

28:05

the supporting docs for the tax deferral uh and then we send it off to the state

28:10

the state ultimately approves or denies and they will send a letter to the applicant and let them know and then

28:18

they manage that particular program we also have a hardship uh or poverty

28:24

abatement that is available that's obviously based on on your income uh

28:29

income and expenses we have the application in the Assessor's department they also have

28:35

applications um over at the ga ga Department thank you um because GA

28:44

ultimately um will put the application together and that has to be approved by the city council um so they handle that

28:53

but you could either come into the assessing department and we will hook you up with that or you can go over to

28:58

GA at on Main Street and they can also assist you with that right and just for anyone who doesn't know GA is General

29:05

assistant right I I we we all have the acronyms that we use all the time so now

29:11

with the exemptions you have your homestead and then you gave another example of the veterans or blind now

29:17

what if I'm all three what if I've lived in my home for a year what if I am a veteran and what if I am any of those

29:23

can you do all you can and if if you are a couple and you're both veterans you actually get two veterans exemptions on

29:29

the property oh good to know that's a great question now that is Veterans is age related 62 years or older served in

29:36

a federally recognized War period okay um or 100% disabled and obviously has

29:44

the supporting paperwork for that yeah I remember when I first um

29:50

move moved back here to Maine and I live in Mechanic Falls and I think one of the first things they told me when I went in

29:56

to you know get the car registered and and all the different things uh she had me fill out the homestead exemption

30:04

right away we had moved in in January and she said just fill it out now we'll

30:09

hold on to it and she's like and then we'll have to file it next year but like she's like just do it and then it's done

30:16

and I was like okay I I didn't even know what she was talking about I was just like sure I'll fill it out we encourage

30:22

that as well we hold applications until people are are are eligible so fantastic awesome

30:28

now what's the most interesting part of your job and either one of you can go first

30:35

doesn't matter well I'm weird um I I enjoy I enjoy processing sales and

30:41

transfers um it it's it's a labor intensive um project um but you you know

30:47

you're you're seeing property value you're doing the deed research and you know so that that's really something I

30:53

enjoy because there's an analysis that follows you know about sales and and and you know as having a a real estate

30:59

appraiser background sales data is exciting so um but most okay I'll take

31:05

your word for it mostly um I enjoy the inspection cell

31:11

I I I every home has a story whether it's the architecture whether it's the provenance or the people who live there

31:18

I love doing that part of it because uh discovering that story is I think what

31:23

we do as assessors we we we we discover stories and we tell stories through the

31:29

property record so that's what I enjoy great way to put that J I love that I I

31:35

completely agree um inspections are my favorite part of the job absolute

31:40

favorite um for those reasons but for reasons um you're always learning

31:46

something construction is always changing um I I've been into homes over

31:53

the years where different types of materials are being used I had no idea what they were and I have to talk to the

32:00

contractor and say what is that I've never seen that before and it's fun to learn because they are contractors are

32:08

great to work with they'll explain everything to you from heating systems to you know construction of the house to

32:15

new types of insulation and so you're learning constantly so every time you

32:20

walk into especially a new construction what am I going to learn today that's

32:26

it's great sounds interesting it dangerous I just want to remodel my house every other day I know I just saw

32:32

this really cool product yeah for now a question we ask all of our guests what

32:38

is your favorite thing about Auburn and it does not have to be work related oh that's tough that's a tough

32:45

one um I think my favorite thing is the different areas of Auburn um I

32:55

can be in the middle of of the city and it's very dense and and there's a lot

33:02

going on in the commercial areas and 5 minutes later I can be out in the country and every time I drive and it

33:10

takes forever I mean if you start up on Maple Hill and you drive all the way to

33:16

the pel line you're a solid half hour um the area alone and it's so diverse and

33:23

the neighborhoods are so different and there's there's tons of things to do and

33:29

what you can't find to do here you're only less than an hour from the coast

33:34

you're less than an hour from other cities you're it's just it's a great

33:40

central place to be with again a a lot of diverse

33:47

neighborhoods yeah I think Karen just took my answer oh um but I agree I mean

33:52

I think Auburn has a bit of everything um you know we're part Urban we're part rural U the best things about Maine I

33:59

think are here in in Auburn and if not we're close to everything so you know we're not far from the coast we're not

34:05

far from Woods the mountains I can do the things I enjoy you know skiing hiking biking uh if I want to go to Red

34:11

Sox or a Patriots game it's a it's not it's a short driveway um Auburn is my

34:16

home it's it's really the place I want to be nice well Emma thanks for joining

34:23

me today appreciate having you here and Karen and Joe thanks so much our

34:28

pleasure thank you now I know this is just the beginning of kind of information and communication that's

34:34

going to go out to folks regarding the reevaluation process I know you had mentioned there would be uh there's

34:41

probably going to be a public meeting of some sort I know that there are plans to do some sort of a webinar or a zoom

34:48

meeting so they'll there'll be some different things that are going to be coming out and people should also Monitor and look for official

34:55

correspondence that comes out from your department um through the mail as well that's correct okay yep and I know we'll

35:01

have stuff on the website too so just a reminder you can find information about the assessing Department by visiting

35:08

Auburn m.gov under the government tab bear with me people I'm going to kind of walk you through this a little bit under

35:14

the government tab you'll see Departments of the city you'll go to that once you're on that page you're

35:20

going to look for finance and under Finance is the Assessor's uh department

35:26

so you'll find information there and like I said we're going to have a ton of different information that's

35:31

going to be going out so make sure you monitor social monitor the website

35:37

monitor your mail um we'll be getting information out there all sorts of ways

35:44

so one last comment um we also are happy to have taxpayers come in we'll talk to

35:51

them one onone if they have questions about the reval or if they have questions about their property or or so

35:58

anytime at all it's an Open Door um give us a call we'll set something up and

36:03

come on in it and we will answer all of your questions and normally City Hall we

36:08

are open Monday through Friday 8:30 to 4: so come on by we're at 60 Court

36:14

Street if you don't know where we are so thanks again everyone for joining me thank you thank

36:22

you thanks for joining us on absolutely Auburn you can find all things Auburn

36:27

mean at Auburn m.gov and go auburn.me you can also listen to us anytime anywhere you get your podcasts

36:34

including Apple and Google podcast Spotify Amazon music and iHeart Radio

36:39

just to name a few the city of Auburn's Communications team wants to remind you that absolutely Auburn is the only

36:44

official podcast for the city of Auburn Maine